Dec 19, 2019
Brown-Forman and the Kentucky Distillers' Association are two organizations focused on growing bourbon both domestically and internationally. Taylor Amerman and Ali Mize represent these brands to balance the scales by focusing on ways to promote a better drinking culture. This means awareness of moderation, being inclusive of those who don’t drink, and how more ID checking systems are being installed at distilleries across the state. As we go into the holiday season, please remember to be safe and drink responsibly.
We encourage you when you get home to check with your local DMV to make sure that this idea is real. We'd love to have you on the tour today but you will not be participating in the tasting.
Well, at least they can go and see everything. Absolutely. Just like Jimmy John's the smells are free.
Yeah, exactly. Just like Jimmy John's.
What's going on everybody? It is Episode 232 of bourbon pursuit. I'm Kenny and we've got just a little bit of news to go through. And I think by now everyone has seen the viral sensation of the girl who made probably the worst old fashion of all time. It was originally shot in 2010 by mahalo calm, it had muddled cherries and oranges, a whole pint of Jim Beam bourbon. I mean, it was bad. But now Janae Nyberg, the actress on that video has made a reappearance. The folks over at Jim Beam tracked her down and gave her a shot at redemption. In an esquire.com article they talked about how the video started and what she's up to now, beam gave her a second shot and she nailed this time making the perfect old fashioned. You can watch the original and the new video with the link to esquire.com. In our show notes, the craft beverage modernization and Tax Reform Act is a tax cut for thousands of small distilleries, breweries and wineries across America. And they take that tax cut to reinvest it back into the distillery to continue to grow it. And it was a steep cut in the federal excise tax on alcoholic beverages. And Congress passed this at the end of 2017 as a part of the tax cuts and JOBS Act, and it is now set to expire on December 31. And legislators have until Friday to extend it if they don't distilleries will face a 400% tax increase with the first payment for money due on January 15. This as the craft beverage producers scrambling with Thought of potential employee layoffs or even worse, maybe even closing their doors. You can read the article posted by clay rising on the New York Times with a link in our show notes. And you can also go to spirits united.com to sign a petition and help make a difference today. Once again spirits united.com heaven Hill is coming out strong with two new releases soon. We talked about larceny barrel proof before and that will start hitting the shelves in January of 2020 with a price point of $50 SRP and then you have old Fitzgerald fall 2019 released that will be the highest age release of this particular expression at 15 years old. And the suggested retail price on that one is $150. And you've heard it from rackhouse whiskey club in the middle of the podcast, but Bardstown bourbon company will be releasing their prisoner collaboration in 13 states starting in 2020. The prison or wine collaboration begins with a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that the Bardstown bourbon company Finished for 18 months in the prisoner French oak red wine barrels, the resulting whiskey is bottled at 100 proof and the collaboration will be available in January 2020 with a suggested retail price of around $125. Now, we've never done a podcast like this before, but we want to highlight everything that's happening in our world of bourbon. Taylor, a member in an ali Mize come from two different organizations, both focused on growing bourbon both domestically and internationally. Brown Forman and the Kentucky distillers Association are balancing the scales by focusing on ways to promote a better drinking culture. That means teaching moderation being inclusive of those who don't drink and how more ID checking systems are being put in place at distilleries across the state. It's really some things that I even found out that were new that were happening as well. So you end up finding some some pretty unique things here. And as we go into this holiday season, please remember, be safe and drink responsibly. All right, let's kick off the podcast. Here's Joe from barrel craft spirits. And then you've got Fred Minnick with above the char it's Joe from barrell bourbon.
In 2013. I launched barrel craft spirits without a distillery and defied conventional wisdom. To this day My team and I source and blend exceptional barrels from established producers and bottle strength. Use the store locator on barrell bourbon com.
I'm Fred Minnick. And this is above the char. This week's idea comes from Twitter from it's just Raleigh. It's just Raleigh asked state run systems, North Carolina versus private Kentucky, Florida, etc. He's basically getting to the question of what is the difference between the state run systems like where you have state run Liquor Control boards or monopolies, if you will, and the private states that allow liquor stores to come in and be privatized and you know, individuals or corporations can
can sell alcohol in a in respective package store. And I'll tell you I'm kind of mixed on this because you get really good data about sales and, and who's getting what in the control state. So like every year, Pennsylvania, while it is mired with its own problems, they released the number of bottles of Pappy and Buffalo Trace antique collection that they get. And that's something that I would love to see broken out from the liquor store side. Now with that said, they all have these very unique laws, a lot of them have price control, and that they will not mark up whiskey above the SRP. That's something you certainly don't see in the private states, which is why you see something like, Well, our 12 year old or Elmer t leiby, five $600 when that's far, far above the the SRP. Now one thing that I'm starting to hear about control states is that they are cracking Down on private barrels. So this is something I'm still looking into. And if you're having some problems with this, you know, please feel free to reach out to me as I, you know, further investigate it. But what's happening is some of these control states are looking at bourbon clubs as competition to their own single barrel programs. And so they're starting to put restrictions and, and rules on clubs that you don't see in private states. And I don't think I like that very much. But at the end of the day, the entire system of selling alcohol is beyond broken. I mean, we're still dealing with laws that were established for the most part in the 1930s. You're only just now peeling away. You know, a lot of these blue laws in some states. So for the past decade, the lawmakers and a lot in places like Alabama, Texas and Kentucky have done a very good job of getting Getting rid of a lot of stupid laws, but the fact is, many of them are still there. And it probably won't be in my lifetime, but at some point, we will have a more cohesive alcohol system. But again, it won't be in my lifetime. And that's this week's above the char Hey, if you want to be like, it's just Raleigh, hit me up on Twitter or Instagram at Fred minich that's at Fred MiniK Until next week, cheers Welcome back to the episode of bourbon pursuit the official podcast of bourbon. Can you here today riding solo but talking about a topic that we typically would never have thought of, you know, we're all about brands, Master distillers distilling techniques, social, the culture of of of bourbon and stuff like that. But there is there is one aspect of it I think that gets overlooked and that is, knowing your limits knowing when not to drive you get to know these these types of things of me. Making sure that you are being a good citizen, a good consumer of the brown water at the end of the day. And this was really kind of a topic that really kind of came out of out of the blue for me, I actually had an opportunity to meet one of our guests today at a dinner that was actually sponsored by the University of Kentucky. And then from there, we just started talking, I had no idea that this department these positions even existed inside of these, these corporations, and that even the Kentucky distillers Association had people that were dedicated to this as well. So it's going to be something that I found super interesting. And I think you're going to find it interesting as well, because there's just there's a lot of things that happen with inside the bourbon world. And a lot of times that we want to make sure that we're promoting the right things. We talk about what we're drinking all the time. And what we have we have like nine pours is something as we're sitting down and trying a bunch of stuff in a lineup, but we need to make sure that we actually have the capability and wherewithal to kind of know exactly what we're doing after that. So today on the show, I want to be introduce two of our guests. So we have Taylor. Taylor is the global alcohol responsibility manager for brown Forman Corporation. And Alamein, the director of social responsibility for the Kentucky distillers Association. So ladies, welcome to the show. Thank you. Absolutely. So before we kind of dive into this, we kind of want to get understand your backgrounds, kind of like where did you kind of start coming? I usually start the show, talking to people like where did they where did they start really get introduced to bourbon? Do you all have a story where you got introduced to bourbon or something where you got this kind of role like got you into bourbon?
I would say my experience at Brown Forman got me into bourbon. So I interned for brown Forman while I was attending the University of Kentucky, my junior and senior year and that's where I really got to understand old forester and Woodford Reserve.
But you Allie
Taylor Taylor, bourbon I mean bourbon has always been a part of my life as a little million and a Kentucky and but I had spent some time working in Belgium after college. and came back to the oval and really had never been legal drinking age adult in this in this city. And so I met Taylor through some networking and she introduced me to her work at Brown Forman. And when I went to go get my MBA, she really helped me understand what this field of corporate responsibility was all about. I wrote my capstone with the company and on the production of bourbon barrel beer and Western Europe, actually, and then came back worked at yum brands for a little bit on their sustainability team. And when this role opened up, Taylor and her old boss Rob really helped champion me into the role so I have a lot of my bourbon history to think, or that Taylor to think that
Yeah, I've got to say we've pushed we all set the stage as well as you two are also very, very good friends outside of work. Yes, that here like bridesmaids and everything like that. That's going on around here to full disclosure, full disclosure. Yeah. So there might be some collusion involved at the same exact time, right? It's true. So I guess, since Taylor, you kind of had the the kind of started the path to here. So, what kind of got you into this and you know, you mentioned like interning here, what was that intern position and then what led that into this sort of full time position as as that internship ended.
So in full disclosure, I have an accounting degree for my undergrad, but then moved abroad and got my first masters in corporate social responsibility from the University of Nottingham and England, where companies are really focused on broader societal needs, whether it be around the environment or social issues. So after I graduated, I came back to brown Forman, leading some of our environmental sustainability work, but over the last four years leading alcohol responsibility and what that means here at Brown Forman, we'll kind of talk
a little about the environmental thing because I think that's also like a unique aspect of what happens in regards of bourbon production. Everybody kind of wants to understand like, Is there a carbon footprint with bourbon? Is there a way we have to worry about sustainability with wood and barrel And Cooper, James and all that kind of stuff kind of talk a little about that background.
Absolutely. So that is all housed in our production operations right to reduce water energy, efficiencies, how, where our grains and come from the wood that we saw, right? But then also how can we tell those stories to consumers and key buyers and retailers that are also interested in environmental sustainability. So corporate responsibility as a whole is environment diversity and inclusion, community relations and alcohol responsibility. So it's like who we are as a company, and it's not new. We've been doing this since day one at Brown Forman right we were the first company to have a sealed bottle of whiskey for safety and concern of the consumer and everybody listens to the backstory with with Jackie as I can. On our past episodes, we talked about the old forester brand and really how that really pioneered a lot of the exactly what you're talking about there. So Ali, I kind of want to get a little bit of your Background because you were doing some of this at Yama as well, in regards of social responsibility yamas bulleit. Understand it's it's KFC and Taco Bell. So kind of talk about how you're making tacos a better place in the world.
Yeah, well, we were really hoping to transition yums shareholder base into longer term shareholders that really understood the value of social responsibility and environmental sustainability. Because at the time when I was there, they had an activist investor on board, and their ratings in the social and environmental spaces were kind of low. And so how could we kind of educate investors about what the company was doing proactively and to reduce waste in their supply chain to improve human rights concerns and those kinds of things and ultimately increase their share price. But what I do for the Kentucky distillers association is a little bit different and that my main focus is really around Governmental Affairs and making sure that our distillers are proactive in their responsible retailing efforts so that we can continue to go to To the Kentucky legislature and make asks like for the ability for people to ship their bourbon home when they visit a distilleries, Visitor Center, the ability to enjoy a cocktail. When you go to a distillery, I think a lot of people forget that wasn't a privilege before 2016 in the state of Kentucky. So we really proactively use our responsibility efforts on the lobbying and advocacy side as well.
Yeah, I mean, we will definitely get into that because I know that I've seen it on the bourbon trail. Now you go in somewhere. And there's there's a lot of license scanners that are placed everywhere. So we'll talk until a check. Oh, gosh, all right. Now we're, let's let's not give away all the secrets, people figure out how to hack it right. Now, we won't find about that, but we'll hit on that here in a little bit. So, you know, I guess, Taylor, I kind of want to kind of come back to you here a little bit, you know, coming to this into this particular role. What were what were some of the really the guidelines or what were the some of the things that were really in the job description about what you're supposed to be promoting at Brown Forman?
Absolutely. So this job was given to And so I was like, What in the world is
that they like they made the position for you when you came in kind of thing.
So it we've had this position probably about 15 years, and I'm the third person to have this type of for all. Specifically, again, the work has been happening for a longer time, but to have a dedicated resource to this. But we also need to define what that means. And it's more than Please drink responsibly, right. Okay, that's a legal compliance line. So we had to define that. It's in within Corporate affairs. So I support all of our brands, all of our markets and all of our employees around the world.
And that's a lot because brown Forman is not a small company. It's
not a small company, almost 5000 employees globally, and we believe it has to start with us, right if our vision is to create a responsible drinking culture, it has to start with our internal culture here at Brown Forman so our employees understand what those behaviors and expectations that if they do choose to drink, it is in moderation, but we also respect the choice not to drink here as well. 30 30% of Americans don't drink alcohol. And that is adults doesn't include the kids. So it's 30% of adults don't drink alcohol. But again, it's within Corporate affairs. So for us alcohol responsibility is across a variety of topics. So not surprising is preventing under age access and consumption, just like we mentioned with ID scanners, preventing drunk driving. So our partnerships with lift and Uber and taxi companies, but a few that make us bit different are supporting addiction recovery. We do a lot that addresses sexual assault and harassment in respecting the choice not to drink. Wow.
Okay, we're going to touch on each one of those a little bit, because I'm a big fan of Uber. So we kind of want to start here talking with Allie first because you know, as you were kind of saying that when we before we started recording here that Ali's role is sort of like an umbrella across a lot of Kentucky and bourbon and stuff like that. So Allie, kind of kind of give us an idea of like, what the job description is and Sort of what you all are doing, and putting measures in place to make sure that people are trying to do a lot more socially responsible actions.
Sure. Well, I've learned a lot from Taylor and brown Forman. And so a lot of my job at the Kentucky distillers association is taking best practices from companies like brown Forman and beam, Sentry and biagio that are kind of leading in this space, and raise up the next generation of micro distillers to have the same practices. And so we're all about collective responsibility. And I think that that comes through in a few different ways. One is establishing best practices so that distillers know practically what it means to embed alcohol responsibility into their day to day operations, whether that be manufacturing, marketing, tourism, any event. And so we have a series of very simple checklists about what things you can do in your ticketing in your gift shop in your tour, talking points to incorporate those aspects. And then we build data driven partnerships to kind of bring those best practices to Life. So partnering with Intel attracts age ID solution to make sure that tour operators have a chance to scan IDs authenticate that they are real and prevent under age access to alcohol. And we've caught over 500 fake IDs at distilleries since that program was implemented. So it's super practical, or we work a lot with the mocktail project to increase non alcoholic drink menus across the state. And so helping get our distilleries involved in that program, particularly through a campaign we run each October called mock October. And that's really used as a period after bourbon Heritage Month whenever anyone is kind of worn out. Say, let's take it take the weekend. Relax, we need a break. Oh, yeah, and learn what options exist in terms of zero proof cocktails. And we work with better drinking culture on an auditing program that holds our distilleries accountable to the best practices. So they have if they want an outside consultant, kind of figure to come in and really check and say, here are the ones you're upholding. Here's some areas where you're struggling. We have some resources to help you with that, that partnerships in place. And then we work a lot with lift and other transportation providers, like mint julep tours are in our limo to really make sure that people don't make the choice to drink and drive. So partnerships. And then I would say the last aspect is really raising awareness of the industry's commitment and actual programming amongst legislators, tourism partners, and the consumers and making sure that we get that story across. So best practices, partnerships, awareness, raising media campaigns.
So let's let's dive into some of these a little bit a little bit deeper here, because you talked about some good points. And I actually, this is a very recent memory, your mind going to four roses and actually doing a barrel pick. They said, Hey, we need everybody's IDs. And we're like, we didn't do this six months ago with we talking about and yeah, so Mandy was there, she scanned all of our IDs and make sure everybody's, you know, over 21 I guess. So first off, it's really cool to see that intelligence is working. I think it's very ballsy if somebody that's under 21 to go into this Hillary and try buy a bottle. I mean, you would think that that would be something that we are all under 21 at some point, but you do you think they'd be like, yeah, I'll just go like the corner store the corner mark, I'm not going to go to a gift shop to go do something like
this. They just want the experience with their friends, though, if you think about it, they're not always trying to buy the bottle. Sometimes they're trying to get on the tour and have the tasting and have that experience with their friends. So I think that's where we see it more so than in the gift shops with bottle purchases. But you're right, it is surprising that there have been over 500 fake IDs caught on the bourbon trail. I think it's really educated, the distilleries and the industry to that, hey, this is such a necessary tool. You know, it started with just a few distilleries adopting it and bringing it to the attention of the group. This was an option and something that we should pursue as an industry. And what we did was really work with three different ID authentication providers to test the state's best fake ID so we partnered with Alcohol Beverage Control, got their best fakes and really check them on all the different systems and intelligent every time hands down came up with The best system. And so, over time, we've had more and more distilleries come on board to the point where there are 28 distilleries across the state using this technology. And it's great because it sends a consistent message, right? It's not one distillery, doing it over here, and then the next place doesn't do it. And all of a sudden, someone gets angry that they were asked for it at the other location. It's really about providing a consistent consumer experience along the Kentucky bourbon trail and craft tour. And so a lot of other cool things to note are that we have global ABC enforcement officers using the same ID checking technology, when they're going to do their spot checks at Louisville retailers, when they're going to your corner liquor store to make sure they're not serving minors. And they know that store has an issue. They're showing them the technology that Kentucky distilleries use and recommending that that person adopted so that's a really cool case study of where industry has actually influenced government and regulation. And, and I think we're really excited about it. If you were at forecastle, about two weeks ago, you'd also notice that all of their We're serving stations using teletrac, as well. So it's definitely a resource that we promote to our partners across the state.
Oh, it's good. I'm glad to see the technologies working in the favor for for this as well. I'm assuming that if somebody does scan a fake ID, they're not like here go tracking at the next place. They're actually they're probably, they're probably taking it right. So
it's actually illegal to be in possession of a fake ID in the state of Kentucky, even if you are a distillery, confiscating it from a gas. So generally, the protocol that we train the distillery employees to say is, we've been alerted to a problem with your ID based on our intelligence system. We encourage you when you get home to check with your local DMV to make sure that this ID is real. We'd love to have you on the tour today, but you will not be participating in the tasting.
Well, at least they can go and see everything. Absolutely. Just like Jimmy Johns the smells are free.
Yeah, exactly. Just like Jimmy Johns.
So I kind of want to talk about the intelligence thing a little more because this is something that is is becoming pretty ubiquitous as you are going down the bourbon trail and I think this is also So something that maybe our listeners want to know is, is it tracking you, as you are going to every single distillery? Like is it say like top? Sorry, you've done three today. We're capping you there, like, is there? Is there some sort of tracking mechanism that's involved with it, too?
Yeah. So that's a really interesting question. And I think that we have the capability to add that functionality in the future. Right now. We're just focused on making sure IDs get scanned, and that no one under age has access to how call
Ali's your next big brother here.
Okay. Yeah, that technology does have the ability to store some demographic information, no personal identifying information. So it's not going to store your name, for instance, but it could store that a male who is your age, and from this state visited the distillery on this day and time and so what that does, especially our craft distilleries, it helps them understand the demographic of their consumers better and if they know that they had a ton of visitors from the state of Michigan, come in in the past. Few months, and they don't have distribution. And then in that state, that's something that they can talk to their distributor about and really pursue. And so it's, again, not storing that personal identifying information. But it is storing demographic things that can really help our guys on the business side as well. And so all of a sudden, you have this responsibility tool that has become a great marketing tool as well. The last thing I'll say about the storing of information, besides the fact that this is really an encrypted technology that has passed through the legal teams of brown Forman, and all the other big companies within our membership is that it does have the capability to do exclusive groups that can be controlled by the managers at the visitor centers. So an example of a group that we have set up that is not currently in use, but could be in the future is banned and intoxicated. So let's talk about the difference between those intoxicated means that you would be flagged here it would be flagged for 24 hours in the system, and then banned means that you wouldn't you be marked forever along the trail. And so while by
the KDA that's
Yeah, that's basically that's what it could become. But it is really intended if you're intoxicated and all these distilleries are sharing the same technology. If you go to Evan Williams, and you show up and you're highly intoxicated already, they can flag that idea that when you go down the road to Victor's and your idea scans using the same technology, it's going to pop up with a note and say, Hey, this person was flagged as being intoxicated, maybe think twice before serving them. So again, the technology is never giving a mandate around how to treat that person and their identification. It is helping guide the distillery employee and making smart choices and protecting the consumer which is what the technology is all about. And I think the last thing I want to add because I remembered it coming back to your point about four roses scanning every ID is that's been the most interesting trend for me to watch is I think the perception in Kentucky. A I'm clearly above 21. And how dare you ask for my ID. But we really in the alcohol industry view drinking is a privilege, right? I mean, it is an honor to be able to go into these distilleries and obtain their product and it can cause impairment. And you go out to a state like Oregon, Portland, Oregon, you go out to distilleries or wineries out there, and they do check your ID every time. And so how do we create this mentality shift that says, alcohol is a privilege, not a right and when you consume you need to consume responsibly, otherwise, that privilege can be taken away?
Because that's how society views it. Right? Absolutely.
Absolutely. And I think you also brought up another point right there, you know, if somebody is flagged and they are going from one place to another Are you are you ever worried that it could create some bad juju that could possibly happen, right? I mean, this somebody that that is under the influence they do and they're like, I got a driver like I'm fine, like let me through like blah blah, blah, like In God forbid, you know, security gets caught like Does that ever kind of like run through your mind of like, what could the potential happen if we do sit there and pick a bunch of drunk people off? If they're trying to do this?
I think I'm more afraid of the potential of what happens if we don't do anything. Right. And so, I think that as we grow in our responsibility efforts as an industry, and I would say, brown Forman is the most leading at this but I think more and more distillery employees feel comfortable making that gametime decision knowing that their boss has their back that intoxication isn't acceptable. And just because you have a safe ride, doesn't mean you're a responsible drinker, like there are limits and you shouldn't show up to a tour and disrupt other people's experiences just because you made the choice to over consume. And so I feel really confident that intelligence is a tool that empowers our tour guides to make the right choice but they of course are also trained to provide a hospitable experience and they are never going to publicly admonish someone Or make them feel embarrassed. It's all about having the wherewithal on how to deal and intervene in those situations. Hey, can I get you a glass of water? Before you go on your tour? You look like you've had a long day. Come Tell me about your experiences along the trail, you know, how do we equip them with the right tools and skill sets to be able to handle this awkward situation?
Hopefully didn't get too awkward, not a hand in so I guess you also brought up something about mocktails. And I think that's something we've we've touched on the podcast before of looking at New York Times articles saying like mocktails, or the new craze, like the, you know, alcohol free bars, you know, so kind of talk about what the the distilleries and what KDA is trying to do of getting into this sort of mocktail category as well.
Yeah, I can talk about it overall, but I'm really excited for you to talk to Taylor because brown Forman has definitely taken the lead on this including serving the first official mocktail at Derby. So, um, you will definitely Oh yeah, we're gonna go there, but I'm the monitor. Nothing really happened kind of organically to be totally honest. I mean, we have always held a tremendous respect for the choice not to drink in Kentucky and along the bourbon trail that's really important that no one feels that pressure when they come to a very bourbon saturated economy and state right. And but the way that that happened was we were at a local art festival and met a gentleman by the name of Jesse Hawkins, who himself has made the choice not to drink has been sober for a few years now. And he had started a movement back in 2016, called the mocktail project. And when Taylor and I encountered counter Jesse for the first time, he was still very, very grassroots. And which was exciting because we were still figuring out what it looked like to tangibly communicate about this respect. And for the choice not to drink too. And so Jesse really started sharing his story with our distilleries, we gave him a grant to really grow the mocktail project and take these kids to bars and restaurants and say, Are you willing to add a mocktail to Your menu, put a sticker on your front door that indicates that you have that option available so that people who choose not to drink whether they are in recovery, or maybe you're just an expecting mom, or maybe you plan to stay out for five hours this Friday night, and you just know that you'll be on the floor. If you drink bourbon the whole time, and you want something to help you pace. There are so many reasons. But that sticker and that emblem would help people identify the establishments that cared about protecting their health. And so he's really grown that. And over time, we've seen more distilleries get involved and take it their own direction like brown Forman. And I think the one month, like I said earlier that we all get involved is October, and that is generally the second or third week in October, where all the distilleries come together serve these amazing zero proof mocktails. We hold a lot of cool events. This year, we're going to have a sons alcohol pop up bar at butcher town groceries Lola at ostra. some really cool restaurants and mythology involved and we're also taking it a step further on this. Addiction Recovery side too. So this year the official mocktails one will be named after Jesse. But one will be named after a woman at Volunteers of America mid states Freedom House program. And so every one Wednesday a month every month, Volunteers of America brings in local chefs for a chop and chat at their Freedom House Recovery Center for Women who may be expecting children during the recovery process, and they teach them healthy cooking healthy living skills. Well, what about how the drinking skills after you get out of recovery, you're still going to be in social settings like parties where alcohol may be present. And so this year, we thought it was really important to teach them how to mix their own mocktails for those party situations. So ostra is going to be going in with a mocktail project teaching these women how to make cocktails, and they're going to make their own and the winning recipe will be named after the woman and it will be the one we promote during the October campaign so that there's a more human element to why we serve mocktails at the distillery And in bars and restaurants because I think that's what we miss. I mean, everyone knows what a mocktail is. But I think the more impactful thing is, why it's important to include it and why we need to be thoughtful about how we make people feel included, right? We talked about diversity and inclusion and all sorts of industries all the time. What does diversity and inclusion look like in the bourbon industry? From all aspects not just black, white, male, female, but our drinking habits too?
I gotcha. Yeah, that's good. And by the way, I love OSHA. It's one of my favorite restaurants here in town. Go to I love the churros for dessert. We'll talk about that afterwards. But so Taylor I know we we an alley wouldn't go alleys alleys hog a lot of the air. She's killing it. So So kind of talk about really what brown Forman is doing in this this mocktail category.
Absolutely. So you know we are deeply committed to it. We have employees who choose not to drink we have board members. We have consumers and business partners that choose not to drink for a variety of reasons. In addition, health and wellness trends right now. And it is invisible. You may not be able to Tell that so we talked about little things. Don't ask why someone's choosing not to drink, right? It should be an invitation I can offer you. But it shouldn't be an expectation to be part of the social setting it. If you are choosing not to drink, you still want to go learn about the history of bourbon, you still want to enjoy our amazing restaurants that we have here in town. So everyone should be welcome. for that. We started an employee resource group. So just like other dimensions of diversity, and ours is called spirit. And it is to respect the choice not to drink. So raise awareness. You know, we have a cafe here on campus, and before spirit, they would cook with alcohol in the food in the desert, but it may not be clearly labeled. And if I accidentally have some cake with bourbon, okay, that's a you know, not a big deal. But if someone in recovery does, that is a really big deal when they weren't expecting that and that can be harmful to them. So just raising awareness, what are those issues that we can change and make a difference? And again, welcome them to brown Forman as employees and guests
to talk about what you were doing during Derby
with the careers of master distiller spanning almost 50 years, as well as Kentucky bourbon Hall of Famer and having over 100 million people taste his products. Steve nalli is a legend of bourbon who for years made Maker's Mark with expertise and precision. His latest project is with Bardstown bourbon company, a state of the art distillery in the heart of the bourbon capital of the world. They're known for the popular fusion series, however, they're adding something new in 2020 with a release named the prisoner. It starts as a nine year old Tennessee bourbon that is in finished in the prisoner wine companies French oak barrels for 18 months. The good news is, you don't have to wait till next year to try it. Steve and the team at Bardstown bourbon company have teamed up with rack house whiskey club rack house whiskey club is a whiskey the Month Club on a mission to uncover the best flavors and stories that craft distilleries across the US have to offer. Their December box features a full size bottle of Bardstown suffusion series and A 200 milliliter bottle of the prisoner. There's also some cool merchant side. And as always with this membership, shipping is free. Get your hands on some early release Bardstown bourbon by signing up at rack house whiskey club.com. Use code pursuit for $25 off your first box. Talk about what you were doing during Derby. Yeah, because I think I think that's something that's interesting because it's, I think, as Elliott said, this is the the first year that you all had actually done a mocktail project for Derby, which anybody? I don't think it goes without saying like Derby is exactly that. It's it's the mint juleps. It's the lilies. It's, it's the whole experience and most the time Yes, it does involve liquor, right, but kind of talk about what you all are doing.
Yeah, so we are proud to be the official bourbon of the Kentucky Derby with Woodford Reserve and old Forester, and that's wonderful to have those products they are and it's a Kentucky moment for all Kentuckians. But if you are one of those 30% who choose not to drink, you also want something in your hand, that is more than a Diet Coke or a bottle of water. Right? So how can we provide an elevated experience that everyone can shares during my old Kentucky home? So this year we worked with churchill downs and Jesse that alley mentioned with the mocktail project to serve the first official Kentucky Derby mocktail. So Jesse was on site serving
that what did it consist of? Do you remember?
Yeah, I think it was lemonade and cranberry.
Yeah. That's great. That's that's a pretty easy ratio. I mean, because I've seen you know, when they talk about these cocktail bars, you're talking like drinks of upwards of like 810 $12 for stuff and there's there's no spirit in it. So it's like, they must help they're like fresh pressing carrots back there something to make this really like go into it.
Well, we do talk about it's high margin for accounts. And that should be another reason that they have them on their menu. So not only for being inclusive, and show their values but it's good for business as well.
I'll see There you go. We know that
and Taylor's being modest and that
I know you need to talk untalked Very good. They send Jesse all over the place to all these different industry events like whiskey fast and all these things that where he's really influencing trends because he's in involved in industry conversations with the brown Forman backing and so you should feel, I mean, not a big deal that you have whiskey fest with the mocktail project. I mean, let's talk about that.
Totally. So the four that were around the country, Jesse went and served mocktails so many people came up to him just to take a break, they might have been pregnant. And it was such a relief because frankly, we find that a lot of non drinkers won't show up. Right? I don't even want to go there. I'm not going to be there. I don't want to deal with it. I don't want to get asked why 100 times I'm not going so he provides a safe alternative that looks beautiful. It's in the same glassware that everyone else does. It just helps them fit in. We also had him at forecastle with old forester I should have mentioned Of course with Derby. That drink was in partnership with Jackie's I can't have old forester and so they promoted it together. We've had him at taste of Derby. My goodness, we are doing a big partnership with him in New Hampshire this year as well with the New Hampshire liquor commission, so he is great. He helps put a real authentic voice behind this to explain why but it's that mocktails and cocktails can coexist. It shouldn't be either or, or you're cool or you're not cool. We're all enjoying it. We're all spending time together and connecting.
Yeah, I think the one thing that I'm really kind of taking away from this and anally kind of said it best is that this isn't supposed to be like, a line in the sand, right? It's not supposed to divide people and say, like, hey, like, you're over there, we're over here. We don't need to talk to each other. Right? And that it's it's more of a why thing. If If you want to try to party all day and nine, you you know, you're not going to be able to write it's just it's impossible sometimes, especially when you're trying to do bourbon for that time. It's just impossible. And so you can look at some of these as an alternative to like, you know, you don't have to sit there and and be miserable if you don't want to try to do that. Right, you've got to learn to be able to know your limits. And this is something that, you know, it's could be a refresher at the end of it too, right? I mean, I love smoothies, right? I'm sure. I'm sure it's it's got some kind of similarity to the tastes and fruit notes and everything like that along with it as well.
Yeah, I have a few thoughts on that. I mean, one is that we hear industry and place say that all the time, like I've had for work events every night this week, you know, I'm so excited that there's an option where I can still look like I'm participating and engaging and slow down. But one of the nuances that I've learned from Taylor is that recovery is something to be celebrated. And it's hard to feel celebrate. It's not, it's not something to be like, Oh, I'm so sorry. You're going through that or, oh, gosh, how hard it's no congratulations on your sobriety. And I think that's something that we forget. And it's hard to celebrate. If you don't have awesome drink options, right? Like, congratulations, we're so glad you're here. Here's your soda water. Like that's not a good way to help celebrate. And so I think that's another Important nuance to discuss to. There was one other thing I was gonna say. But you all just have in common I forget my last thought was,
well, events are so important, right? So always we have a responsible event checklist that we promote for brown Forman events you do for KDA events.
What's on the checklist? Let's go Let's go some let's start checking these off
check IDs, right, we'll go with that one providing free water and hopefully it's infused and something nice
mocktails numbers are like lemons or something. I gotcha. It's like I feel like I'm in like a hotel lobby. I swear.
Sometimes it goes so so fast. That's what you have to continue to refill throughout the night. non alcoholic beverages, having a point person that you know who to go to, should there be an issue that arises
like an accountability buddy, is it like, or is it like,
like, like, Who's the manager?
Like, there's, there's Gary in the corner. I'm gonna go talk to him like what is what's the point person?
So should there be an issue or an incident of overconsumption? Who do you go to Who's that the manager is that the bouncer? Who's the person in charge? You don't have to try to figure that out in the middle of a situation you already have a game plan. And then so offering some kind of safe right option. And we can certainly talk about partnerships with lift and Uber. But just to add to, at the end of the day, we want everyone who encounters one of our brands to have a positive experience. We never want them to have so much that they never want to drink it, smell it or buy it again. You know, we found that one of the top three reasons people do not drink whiskey is because they've had that negative experience. Just
that sounds like it's a most of the time of what we do we talk. Remember what I talked about, again, the show, like, tell me about your first piece of bourbon. I would say 50% of the time when we interview guests, that's the first experience it was a bottle of jack or it was whatever was and they were on the air on the floor for hours. Right and and i think that what you're bringing here is is is a relatively good perception of it of what you actually should be doing right and that you don't want to sit there and say, Oh yeah, I'm not gonna I don't always want to bring this back in. Emory back, right do let's let's try to make a positive engagement out of it.
Yeah, we don't want any harms to ever happen from alcohol. Right? And so how can what can we do to prevent, to educate to provide those options, but we still need consumers to make those right choices as well. But we're not anti sales, right? We're in the industry. We want to promote these products as being well crafted and something to sip to enjoy to savor it, not to just
escape. And I think you also bring up a pretty good point of being able to give our listeners this sort of background where they might have significant others that don't share their same passion, right. If they're listening to this. They are the the one percenters of bourbon right there. They're the bourbon nerds that are Yeah, we appreciate it. Yeah. And so and they're in now that if their significant other, they don't have to feel so bad, right, that you all are actually trying to create a different kind of culture. That's just not all whiskey. Right? That it's beyond that.
Yeah, since you're talking about kids for a second. Sure, the number one factor of kids drinking behavior is parents, right? They're seeing how you talk about it, how you enjoy it, they are watching, right? So that's the number one. In addition, the earlier someone tries, the more likely they are to become addicted. So having that conversation early and often with your kids is so important. So of course in middle school in high school, it is talking about alcohol directly. But even younger you want to build those resiliency factors in your kids, getting them to focus on protective factors, not risk factors that might be within their family. But acknowledging it and talking about it is so critically important.
I think that brings up kind of almost hits home a little bit for me, most of our listeners, of course are they a lot of them probably have kids and they see the the teen hundreds of bottles that we all have, and and my daughter plays a joke with me. You know people will say like, oh look behind you. There's Elvis in turn around. My little girl goes, Oh, look behind you. There's bourbon. And she does that as like a joke with me, right? And now that you're saying this, I'm kind of like, yeah, I should probably start having that conversation with her. She's five, but to make sure that she understands that like, this is this is not for you, yet, right? One day, but and also make sure you stay away from all the expensive bottles. The other part but, but I mean, in a more serious note, it is something that you do need to be conscious of as a parent, and making sure that you are setting the right example to
correct even if it comes to cookies, okay, you have one or two cookies. You don't need five or six cookies, right? Well, just thinking that way, talking about moderation and health and wellness, explaining why it's important that she stay away from it. Not just that this isn't for you, this kind of harming your brain. If you consume it before the age of 21 You're still developing this is really important that you know that or when is the appropriate time when your child does become of age. To engage, you'll notice this isn't something mommy and daddy do to cope with problems. This is something that we enjoy, we respect as a craft, and we use it in our celebratory moments. So even having that conversation when they are getting toward drinking age of when, when to engage with alcohol in the appropriate way, because I think a lot of people in our society use alcohol as a coping mechanism. And that is definitely not the best way to see it enjoyed.
And so while we're on the kids category, as well, I know that at least being in the industry myself, and knowing when you're doing marketing and doing all these things and buying promotional products, like it can't be anything that's related to anything that would be Child's Play whatsoever. So kind of talk about more about really what that is and like how do you promote social responsibility when it comes to marketing and that aspect?
So first, our industry standards right there discuss now we are all compliant of and then exceed in many ways, and in fact, it's important to know that that doesn't just apply to discuss members. Even nondescript members can have complaints filed against them, should they not abide by one of those rules? So we can probably just give a few examples but one is over 70% of the audience in where we are marketing needs to be over legal drinking age. at Brown Forman we regularly exceed that 80 90% of markets. So whether or not that's on podcasts or digital, Facebook, social media commercials, that's important to us. But I know we alley deals a lot with point of sale.
Yeah, I mean, making sure that you aren't using models that are above or under 25 years old to just ensure that there is no mistake that any models in your marketing activities look like miners, affluent stars or influencers. Yeah, making sure that you have appropriate age gates on all of your digital materials, including Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, all of that. This is an interesting one to making sure that you are not doing things And that are attractive to minors. And that's where these marketing codes start to get really interesting. So I'm thinking like, cartoons, right, right. How many times have we seen like the little oval mashers on the little bats, right? These cartoon kind of figures that depict bourbon and are intended for legal drinking age adults, but may appeal to minors or the thing I'm seeing on all the influencers accounts now are at the Capri Sun bags where you drink your cocktail out of the Capri Sun bag, right? And who's to say whether that's right or wrong, but it is a fine line. And so the great part about trade associations and approaching alcohol responsibility collectively, is that we provide a forum for our members to come together and discuss these things openly or not openly. Sometimes we have had members come to us in the past and be like, I have a real problem with the add that our colleague x put out. Can you go have a conversation with them and kind of get some background? I don't think it's appropriate for me as an industry competitor to have that conversation, but I do really like it made known to them that we didn't really love that ad and think it could be noticed negatively by a legislator or industry official.
It reminds me of, I think it was over a year to now, there used to be an Instagram account called scotch trooper. And what he would do is he would actually utilize Stormtrooper figurines in pictures with scotch and I mean, he had it was crazy. He had like almost 100,000 followers on Instagram. It was huge. In then, yep, lawsuits and everything kind of came crashing down on him. It wasn't from you know, George Lucas or anything it was actually from the spirits industry, right. So he lost all the sponsorships. He lost everything from that that point. So it was it was something that it's tough. That's a tough realization, right? Because I mean, it is toy figurines. However, how was it actually presented as like, Oh, this is like child's play. Here there, right. However, this is you also had mentioned something so anybody that's out There that doesn't know. So discuss is an organization. You can google it di SC us. They've got all the rules and regulations on what it is to actually be. I guess marketing responsibly and stuff like that. I remember, we had to go through it just for the podcast to be able to make sure that we were complying with a lot of the regulations of, as you said, adding the age gay to the website, making sure that we do a basically a survey of our audience and making sure that what is it like we have to be like 79.8% positive that everybody listening is over
know where that number comes from? a tailor said it currently it's 70.6, but it's 3.6. Okay, that's the percentage of the US population, statistically, that's considered to be a legal drinking age adult, according to the US Census. So that number isn't arbitrary. It's designed to reflect the adult population in the US, which is cool to know.
So it's larger the sample size, right? That's it is the population of the US. So yeah, see, that was one thing I remember. Going through and doing that to make sure that we had all of our ducks in a row and we are trying to find the right people and stuff like that to make sure that we comply with all the guidelines that are that are set out there. So it is good to see that we've actually Thank you. I mean, we've actually encouraged other bloggers and stuff that follow along with us they started adding h gates they started doing that because they're like, why do you have that? I'm like, here go read the PDF. It's long start start now. Yeah,
hi bourbon lovers should care about that because it protects the industry that they love from over regulation. So if you want good access to bourbon, you should be the biggest responsibility advocate out there because the minute the industry starts to misbehave is the minute that regulators start to take away some of the privileges that bourbon lovers so much enjoy when they come to Kentucky
Yeah, I was about to think of because you do start to jog my memory again about the the four roses the barrel pick and stuff like that in and really if if, if that system is not in place and something bad does happen, it could potentially change Exactly what bourbon lovers what we enjoy, we get, we get to go do and barrel pics that like, yeah, it's not gonna be the same experience anymore like some like some things will change, right and so everything that's being implemented is being done with a very specific purpose to actually help the broader community. Maybe at first it might seem like the man's coming down on us but it's not supposed to be like that
responsibility as a part of all our conversations with legislators and we're seeking new privileges and they've given us a ton in recent years. So back in 2014, they passed their bourbon barrel reinvestment credit, which essentially eliminated the bourbon barrel tax and gave it back to distillers as a credit to reinvest and their tourism experiences in their communities to alcohol responsibility in 2015, a past Senate Bill 11, which allowed the by the drink sales at the distilleries, because they knew we could be responsible retailers, that was a huge shift, you're allowing a manufacturer of a product to all of a sudden become a retailer of a product and that blurs those lines, and so they felt confident that distilleries could operate as responsible retailers to allow us to enjoy those cocktails. The next year they gave us the privilege to start serving spirits at fairs and festivals, which was a big one. They also strengthen the definition of Kentucky bourbon whiskey to include liquid that was fermented distilled an aged in Kentucky, not just age changed the game for contract distilling. In Kentucky, which is where we saw Bardstown bourbon company come in the next year. Gosh, we saw spirits shipping, which is something we're working on still, which is a huge concern when it comes to allowing alcohol to get in the hands of miners shipping is a big part of the discussion. And then last year, we actually took our lobbying efforts and use them for social good by helping work on Senate Bill 85, which strengthen Kentucky's DUI laws for the first time in decades, including its ignition interlock program, which helps connect DUI offenders to monitoring and treatment resources that they need so that they won't just be punished legally. But they'll also connect with resources if they do have a drinking problem.
So what's next on like the the lobbying table for for you all like what are you trying to? I mean, I know shipping is a big one, right? We talked about
shipping e commerce.
Yeah, we talked about that all the time, because we see that as kind of like the next generation of where this is all going to go.
Ecommerce is definitely where we're going. And that's a huge responsibility that our distillers do not take lightly. We're very excited about the opportunity, but there is a lot of details to work out and to be totally transparent and teletrac has it been a big part of that conversation in our conversations with ups and IMS databases and all these things of how do we embed ID checking into those shipping conversations to make sure that not just the person ordering it as of age, the person receiving it as a age because there's all these nuances that we don't think about if you send alcohol to an apartment building where someone's at the front desk receiving packages, but maybe the person who would get it upstairs is You know, not of age or an office building, and all these things that you don't necessarily think about, but are really important to address before you ask for that privilege.
A lot of variables there a lot of variables there,
but we want to do it the right way. Right? Everyone does GPS wants to do it correctly. I says the retailer wants to do it. And so how can we work together and collaborate? And I hope you've seen today that it's not just an old forester Woodford issue. It is an industry. And so how can we as an industry come together for collective impact to address some of these big topics?
We talked about Uber and lift? We're going to talk about that, too. So let's talk about ride sharing, because that was, we see it all the time, it'll come up in the app. There's promotional things that come out when it's bourbon fest time or anything like that, and they'll say, Hey, $50 off your signup or whatever it is. So kind of talk about what kind of relationships you are building there.
So first, it starts with us so we have a policy that employees can have a safe ride at anytime personal or from a work event. They need it. But that is never a green light to over consume. So it's always that moderation is expected if they choose to drink, but we want them to have access and they can use Uber lift taxis, whatever's most convenient and economical for them. But then we also provide discount codes at our events. So you all can do this too. It's uber.com slash events. And you can create it whether or not you're hosting a holiday party, a New Year's Eve party. St. Patrick's Day, whatever it might be, you can create safe rides for your guests.
I didn't know that. Yeah, there you go.
And the alley has a great huge partnership with left.
Yeah, we've really loved working with lift specifically, we have found them to be a very engaging partner, our values aligned with them and they've invested a lot in the state of Kentucky. So it started along the rural communities in Kentucky bourbon trail. So when we were first looking at preventing impaired driving, we looked at the resources that were available to people who are going to Bardstown. Let's say or For sales out in Woodford, and we realized that we were telling people not to drink and drive, but there wasn't great access to ride alternatives. And those are it sounds like there's like two taxis. So yeah. And the reality is that 70% of people who come to visit the Kentucky bourbon trail are coming from out of state, meaning that they're not familiar with local resources. they're familiar with national resources like Uber and lift. And so we knew we had to partner with one of them. And so we approached both we ended up working with left and we basically convinced them to unlock their technology across the entire state of Kentucky because of the economic development presence of distilleries, because they don't want to unlock their technology and communities where there may not be enough drivers or demand because they don't want people to have that negative experience of not being able to get a ride or signing up to be a driver and never getting any requests. And so we said, Look, we draw a lot of people to these rural communities, and we think that there could be a cause to have your service and So we made an agreement, they unlock the technology and we started hosting breakfasts at some other rural distilleries, including Woodford Reserve and heaven Hill Ozi. Tyler Jeff to kraid basically put invitations to these distillery breakfasts and the local papers on indeed.com. All these really grassroots things and invited the community to come learn what lift was because a lot of them had no clue and understand how you could sign up to drive and earn extra money outside of your other day job. So how can be economic development tool, and most importantly, what impaired driving statistics look like in your specific community and how having that resource in your community would help? And so we really tried to shine a lot of light on it. We did recruit about 25 to 50 drivers and each place it's still a growing and organic effort. However, I will tell you, we've seen success, particularly in owensboro and it's really picked up in owensboro. And you can now get an on demand really ride really easily there and was in large part thanks to Ozi Tyler's leadership in that community coming on board, and we did see it work at Kentucky bourbon festival. The first year after we held those breakfast, we actually brought in some Highway Safety partners from lift and the National Sheriffs Association, and they took a lift out to Bardstown. And we were so nervous because we were like, Oh, no, they got they got there, but are they going to get a ride home when they order it and they had scheduled in advance, and the woman that picked them up was one of the women that had attended one of the distillery breakfasts heaven Hill, and it was just such a cool story to see that that it did make a difference that someone was able to get a safe ride home back to livable from Bardstown. But beyond that we've really grown the partnership in a variety of ways, the most visible one being a coalition called Safe Ride Kentucky that brown Forman actually started and with, I think it was Uber and city school at the time, and they said, You know what, we would really love to give this to the KDA to grow as an industry effort and we think we can do more Or if everyone invest. And so the KDA took it over and we started inviting other community partners to come on board and donate. And now we give away 10 to $20,000. And free safe rides on five key holidays whenever the Kentucky Office of Highway Safety runs its drive sober or get pulled over program. So that's going to be St. Patrick's Day, Fourth of July, Labor Day, the night before Thanksgiving. And then the two weeks between Christmas and New Year's Eve. But Lyft traditionally has basically given us a investment match. So whenever we put in 10,000, they've put in 10,000 and free rides, which has been huge for the state of Kentucky to have a national resource like that invest in our communities. But it's also another example where the Kentucky Office of Highway Safety gives the KDA a $10,000 grant every year to execute that program along with AAA the wine and spirits wholesalers. And there's one other one that I am forgetting so I hope they don't get mad at me beer
Yeah, the bureaus have helped out a little bit. And but it's just been awesome to watch government support industry efforts and be like, you know what you all are actually doing it the right way we want to get involved. And together, we've given about 8000 free rides. over the span of nine campaigns, we've attracted 500 new users to the lift platform here in the state of Kentucky. So people who didn't have the app on their phone before, but now have it in case they want to order a free ride. And I think that is making a difference. I hope it's making a difference and the way people think about planning your ride, and I know it's made a difference in the way the Office of Highway Safety approaches, they're impaired driving prevention efforts. Because before they were just saying, Don't drink and drive, and they weren't really thinking about what's an alternative? Yeah, what's an alternate what do you do? What do you want me to do? And
so now the homeowner.
So now they're thinking about how do we embed accessibility to alternative transportation options into our state's plans, which is a huge shift.
It is huge. I mean, there's we we On our barrel selections, we go to Bardstown a lot, and we have a lot of people that come in from out of town. And that's always a question. They're like, should I take a rideshare and we always say the same thing, like, you can get out there. I don't know how you're gonna get back. And so we always try to figure out how we can carpool and whatnot and sort of stuff like that. But it's, it's good to kind of know that this is the impact that you're all having. And that this is something that I can now use that as a resource and say, yeah, you can try I think, I think it's, it's growing and make sure you schedule it ahead of time. Right, and you can probably get a ride and it's probably pretty good reasonable prices. I mean, a trip to from Bardstown back to a little might be like 30 or 40 bucks, but hey, it's better than trying to drive yourself that's for sure.
Plan ahead is what we want everyone to do before you start going out or do your event or go to a distillery know your plan. Hmm.
So Ali and Taylor, I want to say thank you so much for coming on the show today. This was a pleasure to really kind of understand exactly what it is that you are trying to do. And I guess I'm gonna give you opportunity to like just like one thing top of mind. Like what you want our listeners to leave with Taylor elegy.
It's great. And so our new campaign within brown for men is called pause. We just want people to be mindful and intentional when they choose to drink. So pause before you grab your car keys. Should I drive? Or should I take a safe ride? pause before you order another drink, pause and have some water to have some food, pause about access. Are there under age folks who are in this room? Just be aware so I hope you all can take that away to know that it's not a no, it's not less than is true that positive experience with bourbon
And as you see friend the cover page of our new responsibility report behind us it's all about crafting a better drinking culture and having a conversation about what that means. And so there is no right or wrong answer necessarily. It is about talking about the vulnerable and awkward situations that sometimes come up and when you're drinking and working through that together so that you have the most awesome time possible when you're enjoying your good Kentucky bourbon. So I think are asked to people Let's just have that conversation about what it means to you. What does alcohol responsibility mean?
I love ending on a slogan, the best way to do it. So thank you both once again for coming on the show. It was it was really good. I think for us to kind of really see the other side of this right we, we talked about the drinking culture all the time, but we don't talk about the other side of it, right? We don't talk about the awareness side too much. We don't talk about promoting the healthy or sustainable side of it. So understanding what you all do as as your full time roles, it plays a huge impact on all of the stuff that most people don't even see or take for granted. It's kind of like it's kind of like the hidden hidden jewel and hidden gem behind it. But there's there's so much that's going on and I can't thank you all enough for what you are doing to help you know positively impact the industry in regards of making sure that people are having a a safe and healthy drinking culture too. So if anybody wants to learn more about the programs that you all have, is their websites or something that they can go and find out more about it.
Ky bourbon trail calm slash responsibility
and RSV brown Forman com slash responsibility here
y'all can't be too hard to remember there so make sure you go you check those out. You can follow bourbon pursuit on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, if you like what you hear, leave us review. If you want to even be a bigger part of this you can help support us patreon.com slash bourbon pursuit. And if you have any other show suggestions, things you want to hear other kind of crazy topics. This was a topic that again, I met Taylor at a dinner we just started talking and it just kind of led to this I was perfect. But if you have ideas, send us an email team at bourbon pursuit calm. With that. We'll see everybody next week.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai